Comments on: The peace candidate? http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html Cutting through the effects of the US empire Sat, 11 Oct 2008 06:59:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Deep Blade http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html#comment-82 Deep Blade Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:48:16 +0000 http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html#comment-82 cs, I've sort of floated back and forth on the question about whether or not Kerry would make anything better. Over at Donkey Rising, <a href="http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyrising/archives/000563.php">this piece</a> reveals some very recent Kerry statements on how he would handle Iraq. Like so much of what you get from JFK, nothing is clear. Sounds like it might be a smidge better. But then, one "fall surprise" could be Bush ordering a partial withdrawal. Inexplicably, Kerry's left that entire policy direction to Bush. And what if Kerry is elected and not just Iraq, but a lot of things get worse. Fair or unfair, his missteps will be amplified a hundred-fold. That fascism could really come a knockin' then. Nader is right to say electing Kerry without a mandate could be deadly. The tough minded liberals are always short of thoughts about what happens if Kerry wins. cs, I’ve sort of floated back and forth on the question about whether or not Kerry would make anything better. Over at Donkey Rising, this piece reveals some very recent Kerry statements on how he would handle Iraq. Like so much of what you get from JFK, nothing is clear. Sounds like it might be a smidge better. But then, one “fall surprise” could be Bush ordering a partial withdrawal. Inexplicably, Kerry’s left that entire policy direction to Bush. And what if Kerry is elected and not just Iraq, but a lot of things get worse. Fair or unfair, his missteps will be amplified a hundred-fold. That fascism could really come a knockin’ then. Nader is right to say electing Kerry without a mandate could be deadly. The tough minded liberals are always short of thoughts about what happens if Kerry wins.

]]> By: cs http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html#comment-85 cs Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:06:30 +0000 http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html#comment-85 You and I agree, Deep Blade, but I'm hoping (because I'm human and that's more or less what we do)that Kerry's strategy is to stick close to Bush on the war so that he can contrast sharply on social & economic issues. As out-n'-out crazy as things have become in this country, Kerry seems to have a kind of center and poise that just might be what we need to slow the fascist juggernaut enough to change course. I think the important thing is to keep amplifying progressive policy alternatives while this downshifting (hmmm, do juggernauts downshift?)goes on. You and I agree, Deep Blade, but I’m hoping (because I’m human and that’s more or less what we do)that Kerry’s strategy is to stick close to Bush on the war so that he can contrast sharply on social & economic issues. As out-n’-out crazy as things have become in this country, Kerry seems to have a kind of center and poise that just might be what we need to slow the fascist juggernaut enough to change course. I think the important thing is to keep amplifying progressive policy alternatives while this downshifting (hmmm, do juggernauts downshift?)goes on.

]]> By: Deep Blade http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html#comment-84 Deep Blade Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:35:27 +0000 http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html#comment-84 Yes, dear man, the brownshirt comment is a lightning rod and I considered not using it. But I kept it for two reasons. (1) Has to do with what you call "the American concensus", or what Chomsky has called "the jingoist concensus." With Bush, it's developing into proto-fascism. Notice, I did <i>not</i> say fascism. Not yet anyway. I'll post on that idea later. There's a fantastic piece about this on the Cursor site. (2) Those audiences are tightly controlled. They want only loyalists in there. Part of how I reacted to the scene Bush creates comes from listening to Duke Skorich (the KUWS Superior, WI talk show guy, 5-6 central time M, Tu, W) discuss the recent Bush foray into Duluth. Calling the extreme Bush loyalists you see at these events brownshirts is an embellishment that just reflects my feelings--not entirely specious--and it's my blog so I can write those any way I want. Agreed, most would find the characterization troubling. But my purpose here is to trouble. I doubt thinking would shut off, if only because they'd have to think about how to attack me and demonstrate me to be wrong. They may never even have been confronted with the term before. So good man, don't send your brother here for edification! And thanks so much for the comments. This is fun! Please keep it going!! I'm getting a little tired of wasting time trying to engage the tough minded liberals in Steve Gilliard's stable. Yes, dear man, the brownshirt comment is a lightning rod and I considered not using it. But I kept it for two reasons. (1) Has to do with what you call “the American concensus”, or what Chomsky has called “the jingoist concensus.” With Bush, it’s developing into proto-fascism. Notice, I did not say fascism. Not yet anyway. I’ll post on that idea later. There’s a fantastic piece about this on the Cursor site. (2) Those audiences are tightly controlled. They want only loyalists in there. Part of how I reacted to the scene Bush creates comes from listening to Duke Skorich (the KUWS Superior, WI talk show guy, 5-6 central time M, Tu, W) discuss the recent Bush foray into Duluth. Calling the extreme Bush loyalists you see at these events brownshirts is an embellishment that just reflects my feelings–not entirely specious–and it’s my blog so I can write those any way I want. Agreed, most would find the characterization troubling. But my purpose here is to trouble. I doubt thinking would shut off, if only because they’d have to think about how to attack me and demonstrate me to be wrong. They may never even have been confronted with the term before. So good man, don’t send your brother here for edification! And thanks so much for the comments. This is fun! Please keep it going!! I’m getting a little tired of wasting time trying to engage the tough minded liberals in Steve Gilliard’s stable.

]]> By: Jonathan http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html#comment-83 Jonathan Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:18:52 +0000 http://deepblade.net/journal/2004/07/peace-candidate.html#comment-83 Orwellian undertones, Orwellian effects, yes, but I am not sure I ascribe it to machinations. Those "brownshirts" are people who really believe that peace is achieved by defeating enemies on the battlefield, virtually everyone except us pacifists believes it. (Pacifist, now there's a term you don't hear much these days. Considered a quaint notion at best, treasonous at worst.) So if you say the audience is "brownshirts," well, they represent the American consensus. Would Kerry really disagree that winning the war in Iraq will lead to peace? Your comment that "the people we have attacked will never accept peace on our terms" is central to all this. We are not interested in any negotiations short of complete capitulatoin or destruction and the other side surely cannot accept this. So total war until one side is exhausted. That's the formula. And really there is no way out of it rhetorically. Both sides paint the other as less than human. By the way, I don't find the "brownshirts" comment helpful. It makes a point that may be legitimate but then shuts off thinking. My brother is one of those "brownshirts." I have to more fully envision his humanity if I am going to talk with him about any of this. Thanks for the writing. Keep on slicing. Jonathan Orwellian undertones, Orwellian effects, yes, but I am not sure I ascribe it to machinations. Those “brownshirts” are people who really believe that peace is achieved by defeating enemies on the battlefield, virtually everyone except us pacifists believes it. (Pacifist, now there’s a term you don’t hear much these days. Considered a quaint notion at best, treasonous at worst.) So if you say the audience is “brownshirts,” well, they represent the American consensus. Would Kerry really disagree that winning the war in Iraq will lead to peace? Your comment that “the people we have attacked will never accept peace on our terms” is central to all this. We are not interested in any negotiations short of complete capitulatoin or destruction and the other side surely cannot accept this. So total war until one side is exhausted. That’s the formula. And really there is no way out of it rhetorically. Both sides paint the other as less than human.

By the way, I don’t find the “brownshirts” comment helpful. It makes a point that may be legitimate but then shuts off thinking. My brother is one of those “brownshirts.” I have to more fully envision his humanity if I am going to talk with him about any of this.

Thanks for the writing. Keep on slicing. Jonathan

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